On a recent episode of The Sales Hunter Podcast, Mark Hunter sat down with Donald C. Kelly, host of The Sales Evangelist and author of Sell It Like a Mango, to dive deep into the art of effective discovery calls and why every sale hinges on finding your internal champion.
Discovery is Where Deals Are Won
According to Donald, discovery calls aren’t just a checkpoint in the sales process, they’re where the real path to closing begins. He puts it bluntly:
“Discovery is where the deal closes. The better discoveries we have, the easier it’s going to make us the opportunities to be able to develop any deals to close later on.”
The days of running through a basic checklist and hoping for the best are over. Modern buyers, armed with vast research and AI tools, expect sellers to deliver unique value from the very first meeting.
The Rise of Prepared Buyers
With more people involved in today’s buying decisions—often 8 to 13 stakeholders in a single deal—sales has never been more complex. Buyers do extensive groundwork before talking to sales, leaving little room for sellers who fail to add real insight.
A staggering stat from Salesforce highlights the challenge:
“Around 80% of the customers or clients prospects are saying that they feel that the salespeople are not bringing them value to the table.”
To earn a seat at the table, every salesperson has to bring more than just product knowledge. They must offer relevant business context and help buyers solve real organizational problems.
The Power of a Champion
Success today requires having a champion inside the organization; a person who advocates for your solution when you’re not in the room.
“They want to solve the problem. They feel that you can help them solve the problem. But a lot of other people need to be convinced that you are the company or the individual that can solve that problem for them.” – Donald C. Kelly
Champions aren’t always the final decision-maker, but they’re the ones rallying support and guiding the buying committee through the process. Without an inside supporter, even the best proposals get lost.
Doing the Homework: Bringing Value to Discovery
Preparation is essential. Too many reps rely on hope or wing it, missing huge opportunities to tailor their message. For public companies, invaluable insights can be found in annual reports and earnings statements, especially the CEO and CFO letters. These reveal not just what’s happening, but what really matters to executive leadership.
When selling to private companies, the champion becomes the key source of internal intelligence. Smart sellers ask questions like: “What did the CEO talk about in the last all-hands? What’s the company’s number one initiative right now?”
Bringing this level of research translates directly into relevance during the discovery call. As Mark puts it: salespeople must “sell with confidence and integrity”—and that starts by understanding what’s truly at stake for the buyer.
Don’t Overcomplicate It, But Don’t Wing It
Preparation is vital, but analysis paralysis can keep deals from ever starting. Leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT or Claude can distill company reports down to actionable, easy-to-understand insights. This lets sellers prep in just minutes instead of spending hours digging through reports.
The point isn’t to delay the meeting, but to show up ready to speak the customer’s language and ask questions that move the deal forward.
Behind the Scenes: The Silent Discovery
There’s another layer to the discovery process: equipping your champion for “shadow discoveries.” Most salespeople never meet half the influencers at a buying table. By preparing your champion to sell internally, you’re amplifying your reach within the organization. As Donald describes:
“The shadow discovery essentially is when your champion is selling to some of those committee members that you are never going to get access to or never going to see early on.”
The champion becomes your proxy: educating, answering objections, and winning support among stakeholders you’ll never meet.
Finding and Empowering Your Champion
Champions aren’t always obvious. Sometimes, it’s the early researcher, not the executive, who becomes the fiercest advocate. Treat every point of contact with respect and never try to skip over or belittle the person doing the legwork. Doing so can get you eliminated before the real conversation begins.
Ask direct but respectful questions to uncover if someone is leading the project or committee. Validate their influence by asking who else feels this pain or who else will be part of the decision. The more you uncover about the organizational dynamics, the better you can position yourself to win.
Once the champion is found, focus discovery not just on the company’s objectives, but on their personal wins: the promotions, bonuses, or recognition they stand to gain.
Make Every Discovery Count
The best sellers—those who become sales champions themselves—are those who do discovery at a higher level. They take the time to understand the business, identify and nurture their internal champion, and turn every discovery call into a strategic asset.
Buyers have changed. Sales has to change too. The difference between average and great salespeople today is the ability to find, develop, and empower a true champion in every deal.
Ready to stop hoping and start closing? Put these strategies into action, and let every discovery call open the right doors.
Mark Hunter :
You want to be a sales champion. One of the ways that you do that is you have better discovery calls. And when. I mean better disc, I’m not just talking about the discovery call, but how you do a better job of really discovering what it is that the customer is truly looking for. With me today to help unpack it, Donald C. Kelly. Why am I talking? Let’s get the show going. Right now you’re listening to the Sales Hunter podcast with Mark Hunter, where the
Donald C. Kelly :
focus is to help you as a
Mark Hunter :
salesman, sell with confidence and integrity.
Donald C. Kelly :
And now here’s your host.
Mark Hunter :
Let’s cut to the chase and get Donald Kelly in here. Hey, Donald Kelly. If you don’t know him, the sales evangelist is his podcast. He’s working right now in the 2000th episode. This guy does nothing podcast. So congratulations. So anyway, but hey, today we’re talking about how, how anybody can be a sales champion, really get that and better discovery calls. We were talking about this in the, in the proverbial green room.
Mark Hunter :
Why don’t you unpack that a little bit for the audience?
Donald C. Kelly :
Well, first off, thanks for having me here, Mark. I know, you know, bringing somebody for your audience is. It’s very precious and I’m grateful for the fact that you allow me to come and to share this message. I feel, my personal feeling is that discovery is where the deal closes. The better discoveries we have, the easier it’s going to make us. The opportunities to be able to develop any deals to close later on. But oftentimes, especially right now, we’ve seen multiple data sets. There’s one by HubSpot.
Donald C. Kelly :
I think it’s around 80% that they said that. Excuse me, this is Salesforce. Around 80% of the customers or clients prospects are saying that they feel that the salespeople are not bringing them value to the table. So they, they just don’t feel the sales people have the ability to bridge that gap. Secondly, with the advent of artificial intelligence, it AI, it’s not only equipping the sales side, it’s not just us, but it’s equipping the buyer side. And we know from Gartner research, it said, you know, there’s so many people, people are so much more prepared in advance before they even sit down and meet with you. So with all this being said, if I am doing research, if I am looking for a tool, if I’m in market, I’m going to or interested. There are more, there are more people in the buying table.
Donald C. Kelly :
I think it’s 8 to 13 people right now at the Buying table. However, most times we deal with one individual and because of the way people are cautious right now of spending, we find that they’re even more cautious with everything that every deal and every opportunity. So they’re preparing more, they’re coming more understanding beforehand and there’s more people to work with. But if we are the sellers going with the old school way of just our plain old discovery, and then I send a proposal and then I’m hoping for the deal to close, I’m going to be on as Hope island, as Bernie, one of my sales trainers back the days used to say, and hoping that this deal will come. But right now we need sellers that are strategic. We need sellers that are more con you. I hate to say the word consultative, but they’re bringing more relevant information to the table and they’re rain makers in every essence of the word because they have to do more in order for the deal to close rather than passively. And that’s going to come through an effective discovery.
Donald C. Kelly :
And also not only in that discovery, it’s a shadow discovery. And the shadow discovery essentially is that when your client, when your champion is selling to some of those committee members that you are never going to get access to or never going to see early on because they’re part of the research committee, but when they bring those people in, if you only have one shot, you are already dead in the water. You have to look at a way how you can get into those shadow discovery meetings that you’re not permitted to. And that’s through your champion.
Mark Hunter :
Okay, you just said a lot. And in three minutes people just got an unbelievable master class on what they need to do. Thank you, Donald. But let’s start unpacking it. I want to back up and hit a definition because you said champion. Champion. A lot of salespeople still don’t understand the value of having a champion and who is a champion. So can you describe that a little bit to the audience?
Donald C. Kelly :
So essentially this is your internal salesperson in the organization. Oftentimes they may be the idea person that recognize a problem and want to bring the solution and are researching solutions for it. So they’re the team lead per se sometimes or the, the person, the committee chair in some instance. If you want to look at it like that, for this project now in order, they can’t make this decision alone because of the way policies are in most organization and they have people that are, they have to convince. But that’s the champion. That’s the person, that’s your, your cheerleader inside the Organization. That’s your support. That’s your evangelist.
Donald C. Kelly :
They want to solve the problem. They feel that you can help them solve the problem. But a lot of other people need to be convinced that you are the company or the individual that can solve that problem for them.
Mark Hunter :
Okay. A very key role, very key position, especially in anything complex. And every sale these days is complex. Now let’s go back to the beginning of what you said. You made the comment that 80. That Salesforce reported that 80% customers are saying 80% of all salespeople are bringing no value.
Donald C. Kelly :
Yes.
Mark Hunter :
Yeah. We’ve got AI and yet it really feels like. And you called out an elephant in the room. I think AI has almost helped the customer more than it’s helped the salesperson.
Donald C. Kelly :
Oh, gosh.
Mark Hunter :
Yeah, right. Sadly. How do we get over that hurdle? How do we. How do we be seen not as that 80%, but as the 20% who are bringing value to our customers?
Donald C. Kelly :
So there are a couple. I’m going to give two ways that we can do this from the jump. So let’s, let’s go from the idea. We’re not talking prospecting. I know that’s. You can, you can hit that mark. But let’s say I, I’ve done the prospecting. I have gotten the conversation with the person.
Donald C. Kelly :
That’s where we are, audience. We have that conversation. You can do. If it’s a publicly traded company, this is an easier path in some. Well, not so much easier. You can get more information. And I interviewed Kevin Cope. If you don’t know him, you should check him out.
Donald C. Kelly :
He runs an institution organization called Acumen Learning. Great. And he has a book called Acumen Business Acumen for Sales Success. The concept there is you need to be able to speak the language of business. And he refers to several things that you can look at. But the key that he says, if you’re trying. If I’m meeting with this client, I recognize they have a problem. I could go to their.
Donald C. Kelly :
Obviously you can go to 10k, but you can go specifically to their earnings report. And you want to get two in two comments or two summaries. One, the summary of the CEO and the one, the two, the summary of the CFO with that information. He says this is basically the. It’s the company saying salespeople. This is what I need the most right now. When you have those two individuals. So let’s say I have an appointment with my person.
Donald C. Kelly :
They’re in operations, and I find out the CFO is concerned about the slow growth of expansion in the US and you know, the impact of tariff on their, their, their, their, their, their pipeline or they’re concerned about building new partnerships with, you know, internationally and the CFO is concerned about some of those constraints and then what this might mean for operational costs or slowing down. Well now I got some great information of what the company leaders are concerned about. I can take that and that’s going to help me to be able to sound way more relevant and tie my solution to that. How we can help them with maybe with the growth or help them with identifying new partners or helping them find new path, a channel path helping them to be able to reduce certain expenses with our solution that’s going to help them, you know, make a little bit more profit. Like if that’s the case, this is information that I can use with my champion and also within that disco that I can show that I am helping to solve a business problem for the organization. So that’s one path to help us. The second path, if it’s a non, if it’s a company that’s not a publicly traded organization, that’s where our champion comes in. I can find, you may not be able to find all the that earnings and details but, but I can find out from my champion what is it that the CEO last spoke about in the all hands meeting or the organization the CFO is shared in the all hands meeting what is the company’s number one initiative right now and if I can identify that and get some of that intel from some of their internal meetings, that’s going to be able to help me as well to be more relevant as we bring other players into the conversation.
Donald C. Kelly :
But with my champion, somebody that’s passionate about solving this problem, recognize there is a need if I can come to the table with some of this information and ask because they’re trying to help solve the problem, I can say Mark, I really want to help you. I want to however I know we’re not a fit for every single client. I want to make sure that it aligns with what your company initiative are so you can best be, so you can best sell this internally to help fix this problem. What is it that you know, James, the CEO was is most passionate about right now or a last all hands meeting or what did Mary CFO last share with the organization can is that some of that information you’re you are privy to but that’s going to help me to be more relevant and help my prospect right off the bat to tie because then now this issue is not just yes we’re Getting a new productivity solution. We’re getting a new solution that’s helping with the CEO and CFO’s initiative relative to, you know, the, the bottleneck we’re facing with tariff challenges or production expenses. Am I making sense? I mean, it does like. Is that flowing there, Mark?
Mark Hunter :
Yes, and I love that. And you know what’s funny? I am blown away by the number of salespeople who don’t look at the annual reports, don’t read for the publicly traded company, the filings that they have. And even for the privately held, like you said, there’s a way to get that information. They’re not doing it. They are literally going in, winging it. And then they wonder why they get blown out. Now here’s the situation.
Donald C. Kelly :
Sure.
Mark Hunter :
Is it possible to spend too much time gathering too much information and I’m delaying having a meeting.
Donald C. Kelly :
Yeah. So this is where our AI can come in place. You can use a plethora of tools at your hand to be able to make that happen. You can even just tell, you know, Claude, chat, GPT or whatever you use. Get the earnings report for this publicly traded company and then give me what this, you know, get the summary of the, what the CFO and the CEO says and put that to me in a eight, in a language for eight year old like that or that is something that can be done. And then now you have eight minutes of preparation that you have right before your meeting for your initial disco. We can definitely do that. They spend more time playing games in between calls or spend more, more times checking Facebook during the actual workday then, you know, given eight minutes.
Mark Hunter :
So I love how you said, put it in the context that an 8 year old can understand. So you truly have dumbed it down for salespeople.
Donald C. Kelly :
Hey, I don’t, I may or may not reveal my level of education.
Mark Hunter :
It’s okay. I made the upper half of my class possible. Here’s a hack that I found is you may be dealing with a privately held company in an industry, but there are publicly held companies in that industry. So then I can go to Chad or Claude and say, hey, give me a summary of what are the key issues that the publicly traded companies are dealing with in this industry. Chances are that’s going to give me kind of an indication as to what the privately held company, when I know what their profit margins are, when I know what their financials are, it’s not okay. I can’t say it’s. Yeah. But it’s going to give me an indication.
Donald C. Kelly :
Yes.
Mark Hunter :
To probably how the Privately held but again people are just not doing that
Donald C. Kelly :
and we can that’s where again my CL like your Claude research or chat research can definitely help if you give it those parameters like here’s the you know you got the earning report for this who the XYZ is one of the privately held company in that space based on what their CEO said or any based on what company information the company is doing or some of the indicators from LinkedIn or from podcasts or from things the social media content they’ve put out. Can you help triangulate for me if they’re feeling some of these same tensions and again it’s not going to be perfect but you get a good idea or how this might be impacting this organization based on some of the things that you’re seeing from some of the information they’re sharing right now. But that’s not too difficult for us to do. And if you get, you know, bagel on it, you don’t get much information. Again, you go into the disco. Whatever method you do, you follow your disco. Whether you are a medic, med pick, sandler, a bant or challenger. It doesn’t matter what I don’t, I personally don’t think there is a it’s tomato, tomato depending on the type of deals you’re going after, but usually there’s several components you have.
Donald C. Kelly :
There’s a challenge that they’re trying to solve. You need to figure out why is that such a big challenge right now? What would happen, you know, indication of what what might not. What might not might happen if they don’t fix that problem. And specifically for my champion, if they fix this problem, what would that be for them if they don’t fix this problem is how is this going to impact them and their role? Because people are selfish when it’s all said and done, they’re going to do stuff that’s in their best interest and this may be able to help them when it comes to promotion later on or bonuses at the end of the year that they’re able to help solve this problem or it’s maybe give them good kudos as they’re trying to get up the ranks. But there’s compelling reasons so you can find that out and then obviously you can obviously figure out if this is something that it’s only your champion is looking at. If the company already doing information research on this maybe what are some of the financial impacts that you can, you know, figure out because if you can help recognize that this is not a deal I’m trying To close, but it’s a problem. I’m trying to help my champion solve for their best benefit. And the organization, they’re going to give you everything that you need to know.
Donald C. Kelly :
Absolutely. At that point, because they’re intrinsically tied to it, and that’s how human behavior works.
Mark Hunter :
Okay, you said a lot there. And there’s two things I want to just recap real quick, and that’s the, the company objectives and the personal objectives. And you got to understand both them. But you, you said something early on. Silent discovery from the champion. Wow, that was powerful. In other words, you’re getting the champion to get you more insights, more information. How do you prep.
Mark Hunter :
How do you first of all find the champion and how do you prep the champion to be able to bring you the goods?
Donald C. Kelly :
So when it comes to. It’s usually I spoke with a CEO of a major or a CMO of a major organization. She shared with me that when she has problems that she’s trying to solve, the traditional sales rep, what she does, she sends out a team member to go and research and to go and find this, Find preliminary solutions to it. Most salespeople will try to overstep that preliminary person and say, hey, who is the person? Who’s the, you know, basically who’s the decision maker? Can you get me connected with them? No decision maker nowadays is going to say, well, the salesperson asked me, let me come to the meeting. They’re saying, no, I don’t have time for this. I’m having somebody do some prep, doing some research. When I feel it’s time for me to come in, I will come in. But if you don’t say the right things, then you don’t.
Donald C. Kelly :
So that person that you’re dealing with, they could be that they may not be the full person that have the, you know, fixing problems. So in this case, the CMO may be the full champion, but they may or may have a team member that’s leading the cost internally. And they’re, in some ways, they’re kind of like the mini champ. And their job is to do the research, to identify three vendors and then to, you know, find the one that would work best and to. And they’re going to be a part of this whole process with us. They may be influencer to the champion because they’re going to pick their preferences to some degree. Right. Oh, I love that.
Mark Hunter :
And that really comes back to what you said earlier, that there’s eight to 12 decision makers.
Donald C. Kelly :
Yes. The decision maker. I always talk about this decision maker doesn’t necessarily have to be a person that has major influence in the money or the, you know, the signing of the deal. Like those people I find you’re gonna have a probably one or two meetings with maybe and sometimes may not be any meetings with you at all. But the. Those. The key, like I’ll give a story about my wife. She worked at a company where she was an assistant and she worked closely with the organ.
Donald C. Kelly :
It’s a small company in West Palm where she was in the commercial real estate. And she worked closely with the. The cfo, the CEO because he would come in every couple of days and he would, you know, talk and you know, with the team and he would sit down with Christina. She did some stuff in the back office when it came to like their accounting and so forth. And she would ask as you signing checks to vendors or selecting new vendors, how were these people when you spoke to them on the phone? It’s not a large office. So she would say, oh, those people are jerks. All right, let’s not do business with them. Like they could have had a good bid.
Donald C. Kelly :
You know what I mean? But the thing about it, that’s an influencer, not necessarily the decision maker signing the check, but that decision maker is taking it. So when you look at this again, they’re the key people. So let’s go back to our example. When you question you asking the CMO maybe, yes, I’m. I want to get a new CRM for our organization, but I have my assistant or one of my team members going to go and do this who I feel is very competent, who went to Yale and they’re doing some preliminary research. But you insult them by saying I need to speak to the real decision maker in this process. You just got eliminated. Now I’m down to two companies because you insulted me trying to get over my head.
Donald C. Kelly :
But treat me as a key part of that process and as many, many champion or the champion because this person, again, if I solve this problem for my cmo, there’s a potential for my path and within the organization or I am, I am faced a challenge because our CRM really does suck. And sales complain to me all the time because I work closely with the revenue team and my chant, my cmo, she’s just there to, you know, doesn’t interact with them as much. So I’m trying to solve this problem. Yes, it would benefit me as well, but it’s helping the organization. But if I’m trying to jump over you researcher, quote unquote, I might have an issue but so that’s your. So identifying a champion as persons that are going to be passionate or maybe trying to solve the problem or a mini champ, they’re going to be trying to solve the problem. And if you’re calling into an organization and somebody says, yes, we’re discussing this, I have interest, they could be the champ. And here’s the other piece.
Donald C. Kelly :
So how do you find a champ as well? You never want to assume as well, Mark, I’ve lost so much money because I have assumed over the years. But what I might say, I might not say, hey, Mark, are you going to be my champion Internally? I might say, mark, is this a problem that you’re trying to solve? Are you getting the team together internally to solve this problem? Are you leading this project or steering the committee to help solve this problem? Are you facing more, more of the issue of it so that you know you’re, you’re trying to look at it or help me understand? Mark might say, yeah, this is my baby, I want to solve this. Mark is my champion. He didn’t say he was the word champion, but Mark is a person trying to fix this problem internally. But that’s, I will validate that with the individuals that I might be speaking with as well to help get that. Or I might say, well, beside, I know right now and if you come with this stuff like this right now, most of the companies I work with like your size. They’re usually, they go through a phase like this and then they bring more people on, recognizing when we work with other companies like yourself, they usually have the CMO that’s a part of the deal somewhere back there. Eventually you’ll have the CFO somewhere and you probably have more of your team members and some of your revenue team members that are facing challenges when it comes to CRM.
Donald C. Kelly :
Is that the same thing you’re seeing into your organization when it comes to selecting this type of a solution? And they’re going to tell me, yeah, yeah, those are some of the people that we’re going to have who in particular feel the problem besides you the most. But now I’m getting more and more people who could be the silent influencers or influencers, people that might not be around or won’t get a chance to see. Maybe not only would until we do a deeper demo, but, but the point is I am trying to, I am getting all that information. And if you’d run an effective disco, it’s not just the budget and the time and the, you know, the decision process. There’s more to it now, and we have to be as educated as possible. And the more that we can help our champion to win and identify what cause is for the company and what causes for them and validate that they’re the person that’s going to push this internally or who’s going to be a part of pushing this internally. That’s going to be because again, if you tell them, like, I’ve seen projects like this not go because, you know, one person or a couple people were passionate about it and several others wanted to keep going with the existing solution. Is that the case internally with you guys? Yeah, we definitely have some folks who were here when we selected the first CRM, so, you know, they want to keep that camp.
Donald C. Kelly :
However, it’s not as functionable. Well, I want to help you, so I’m going to ask questions. I want to get as much as I can because I’m not going to be privy to some of those conversations, but I’m going to ask you some questions and whatever you don’t know, maybe we can figure it out because I want to help you to be able to get what you need internally to be successful as well as to help the company help solve this problem for your organization. P.S. what would that look like if you solve this problem or, you know, bring a solution at work? What would it look like if you brought a solution that doesn’t work? All right, I’ll make sure we’re not the company that doesn’t work. We’ll make sure it works for you. But those are going to help me now with that individual. And if not, the better after all of that, they better become my champion.
Mark Hunter :
You have delivered a masterclass. I’m going to tell the audience right now, you got to back this podcast up and you got to listen to it again because Donald Kelly has driven it home. The key to helping you become that champion salesperson and you finding that champion, you do in discovery at a whole different level. Hey, how do people? Well, first of all, the sales evangelist. Great podcast. That’s what you’re known as. Absolutely fantastic. You’ve written a book.
Mark Hunter :
Tell the audience about your book and how people can get in touch with you.
Donald C. Kelly :
The book is called Sell It Like a Mango. I grew up in Jamaica, tried to sell mangoes, and because I saw other people selling mangoes very successfully in, like, Kingston, a Spanish town, and I said, well, I can do that, too. Turns out I couldn’t because even though we have the same mangoes from the same region, nothing special, we recognize there is a difference. I learned over the years when I started doing B2B sales, that you can have two people selling the same similar software, but one seller might outsell the other. And the thing is, it’s not about the product. It’s about the individual. And so Sell it like a Mango is a new seller’s guide to closing more deals. And we tap into what makes a great salesperson successful.
Donald C. Kelly :
And oftentimes there’s nothing to do with the product.
Mark Hunter :
So, yeah. Thank you. And you’re on LinkedIn, your website.
Donald C. Kelly :
The best way to get ahold of me, if you listen to this podcast, you can go to LinkedIn and you can say, DK, I want to connect with you. You can go ahead and do. I love prospecting. Just like Mark, I created a free tool that we give away at our company. It’s called ProspectPro IO. And it’s basically if you’re doing call blitz or if you’re doing, you know, tracking your percentages for the day, how many calls does it take before I get an appointment? We you plug your information in and it gives you your averages. So you might know, hey, every week I need to do 30 calls a day to get five appointments at the end of the week or whatever it is. And if you’re doing a call blitz, you just.
Donald C. Kelly :
It’s an easy way to track all your stuff and put your data there, and it’s very effective. So it’s ProspectPro IO.
Mark Hunter :
Yeah. And we’ll put that in the show notes. We’ve been talking today with Donald C. Kelly, the sales evangelist podcast of the same name. Same name. And the book, Sell Like a Mango. No. What was the title?
Donald C. Kelly :
Like a Mango.
Mark Hunter :
Sell It Like a Mango. I was correct. I was correct. Thank you so much. Hey, absolutely Great. Two episodes a week, one like this, where we do a deep dive with a subject matter expert. Donald Kelly certainly measures up. That second episode is just me, where I unpack one issue.
Mark Hunter :
Why do we do the podcast? Is to help you see and achieve what you didn’t think was possible. That’s what sales is all about. Hey, do me a favor. Not only pick up Donald’s book, subscribe to his podcast, but check out my new book, Integrity First Selling. And hey, leave me a review on your favorite podcast app, would you? Always a benefit. I’ll see you on the next episode. Great selling.
